Nope, this is not what you think! It's not going to be a discussion on the second amendment, gun control (or not) or whatever. But, it is related to guns. Basically, I just have a question. Without wanting to get political on the issue (I believe the right to bear arms is like abortion - not changing any time soon, so no point fighting over it - especially not with those who have guns), I'm rather apprehensive of guns. I don't want them in my house. I also don't want my kids to be around them, or be in a home with guns unless I know for sure that they are safely and securely stored in that home. I think I'm totally and rightfully entitled to those views, and I think it's also my responsibility to make sure that I don't subject my children to things or environments that I don't deem safe or healthy in one way or another. All that is not up for discussion. That's just how I feel.
But, here is my question. How do I go about 'living' this way, without offending others, or overstepping boundaries? Let me give you an example of what I mean. The other day, after a little talk with Henry about people wearing concealed weapons etc., I said how I wouldn't want anyone around my kids who carries a gun, or would want them to be in home with guns. Then Henry asked me "well, what about X (a friend of ours, who was going to watch Sophia the next day for me)?". Hmmm, well, I didn't know that family X had guns, and I immediately felt uneasy to the point of not wanting to leave Sophia with them, even though I'd let them watch her in every other regard. They're great people and great friends. I was only concerned about safety and gun presence. Eventually, I figured, I should just ask them about it, and ask how they stored them. It so happened that they were unloaded in a safe, which I felt was really safe. So, I was ok to leave Sophia. But I felt really uncomfortable asking about it, and wasn't sure how the family felt about it.
The whole issue made me think. There are probably people who carry guns without me knowing, or who have guns in their homes without me knowing. Is it wrong/inappropriate for me to ask people about that before I leave my child at their house? What would be a good/bad way to go about asking? What about expressing my wish to not have guns in our house? I've been seriously thinking about simply putting up a sign that asks people to leave their guns outside. I've also been thinking about simply asking people about guns in their houses. But then, I don't want to weird people out, or overstep boundaries. I mean, in a way it's none of my business if someone has guns, and how they store them. But, it IS my business to know that my child is in an environment I want it to be in...So, regardless of your own views on the political issue, how would you handle this? Any good advice? People already think I'm a freak. How can I be a freak without making it too obvious?
Wednesday, May 5, 2010
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22 comments:
Speaking of freaks, have you read Freakonomics? There's a whole chapter in there about how people are more scared to let their child play at the house of a family that has guns than at the house with a pool, yet your child is way way more likely to die in a pool than because of an accidental shooting. Something to think about.
Anyway, I hate guns too. What are they good for besides hurting and killing people and animals? I think you have a right to know what the situation is if you're leaving your child with someone. If your inquiry ruins the relationship, then you didn't really have a relationship to begin with and you've lost nothing by asking except for maybe a night out with Henry.
Interesting point about the pool Julie (whoever you are). On a similar note, after 9/11 people stopped flying and chose to drive long distances. As a result, automobile-related deaths increased because we all know that driving is more dangerous than flying. Our temporary, irrational fear of flying ended up causing more death.
That's not really related to Fran's post because I don't think her fear of guns is irrational nor is her concern for Sophia's safety. Fran and I would differ on the nuts and bolts of the political issue although not as much as she would differ with others who may or may not currently be reading this blog. I'm not opposed to a reasonable level of gun control laws. For example I'm not one of those guys who thinks that laws requiring gun registration are anti-2nd amendment. Anyway, Fran you are certainly within your rights to ask about the safety measures that people take with regard to their guns when those people will be watching your child. And you shouldn't be afraid to ask. Even folks like me who wish to own a gun someday (whenever Sarah determines we are in a secure enough home to do so) would be interested to know how a gun is stored at the home of a potential babysitter.
I also hate guns. And i do agree taht you have the right to ask potential babysitters about that. And i would be worried about my teenagers living in a household or having friends where guns are loosely kept. But then also you would need to worry about knives, scissors, razors, toxic cleaning supplies etc etc.. all things that can harm/hurt someone... or maybe even asking where they keep car keys and if they are stored somewhere where kids/teenagers could easily get them and do something stupid. I guess what i mean to say is that there are so many dangerous things out there to be worried about and if we worry about all of them we never are going to trust anyone or let our kids go anywhere.
Well, there are certainly other dangerous things besides guns (like pools or knives). However, a lot of those things are easily seen if they are safe or not (as in I can see if a pool is fenced in or not, or if knives are kept around laying on the table). There clearly are no guarantees that nothing will happen to my child. But, that doesn't change the fact of dangers, and that some things are still more deadly than others (like guns are more deadly than knives, scissors or toxic cleaners). The question is also based not so much on the assumption that some people may just have their guns sitting on the kitchen table, but might be wearing them or just not have them stored in a manner that I consider safe enough (like I wouldn't consider a filled pool that isn't fenced in very safe).
Again, I really have no interest in discussing how reasonable my concerns are, but rather how or if I can ask about these things in a tactful manner.
With that said, I have read Freakonomics. And since I can see how a pool is handled, I have more influence over that. Also, I don't see harm in a pool other than the danger of drowning. My views on the harm of guns, however, go beyond the mere danger of death. :)
I forgot. What do you think though about me not wanting guns in my house? How could I/would I do that? Can I? I mean, is it unreasonable to ask people that if they are gun carriers, to please not bring them into our house? I mean, I feel like in our house, I have the right to say what I'd like to have there (like I wouldn't want people to smoke or drink or bring a gun)? Would it be offensive to put up a sign? Should I ask in person? How so if I don't know who has/has not a gun?
I think if you simply openly admit, perhaps with a smile on your face, that you're a protective parent, one that some might even deem over-protective, people will tend to be understanding. If you were to come to my house and ask about gun storage point blank, I might think you were a bit odd. But, if you preface it with a smile and short explanation of how, even though you realize there are 87,000 other things you could be checking for which would in the eyes of most people be more likely to potentially harm your child during a short visit, you would like to make sure that the guns are properly stored because they're generally more deadly than the other 87,000 things, I think I'd be happy to tell you I have none in my home (because I never would, but I suspect those who do would be more comfortable discussing it, too). Depending on how you feel, you could even just say "Hey, I'm a wierd European, we do things differently". Being in a similar situation, I know there are some days when it's easiest just to let people think I do weird things because I'm American. Other days, the thought is horrifying. Shouldn't people just accept me the way I am without me personally having to label my behavior as a wierd American habit?
Those are my thoughts. Good job keeping your daughter safe!
I think you should install a long corridor at each entrance to your home with security personnel, x-ray machines and metal detectors. Make people remove their shoes and belts and allow them only to bring things in 3 oz bottles. You could also "randomly" search anyone who looks like a terrorist. Then you should be really safe.
H
First of all, don't ever take your daughter to Switzerland. Every American (who hasn't committed a Felony) has a right to bear arms, every adult Swiss male actually does it. So it's not just among the "weird" Americans that you will need to have a guns game plan.
I personally chose not to take upon myself the responsibility that would come with choosing to exercise my right to bear arms (in my own home). However I do frequent my parents' home where Dad keeps guns in his gunsafe and every male 12 and up has taken gun safety (even though no minors own or are allowed to operate firearms without a gun-safety-trained adult - and Dad, who made those rules, would have to unlock the safe).
I would find it strange for anyone who jealously guards their right to bear arms to be anti you exercising your right to be a contientious parent. Be prepared to listen respectfully to their views though (not that you would do anything less) after you've shared your concerns with them.
I get being afraid of something you are unfamiliar with (and guns definitely fall into that category for many people). So you starting conversations with your gun carrying aquantences might actauly make more comfortable with their choices. Or you might have to agree to disagree.
You can ask others not to bring guns into your home, even if they have a right to bear arms, unless they have a warrant, they don't have a right to enter your home. Concealed carriers are allowed to conceal thier weapons in their cars, those without the permit, will have to hang the gun in plain site - I'd feel better about the gun being on the person of a responsible adult.
I'd b interested to know what you mean by "My views on the harm of guns, however, go beyond the mere danger of death. :)"
If you eat meat I can't see the point of getting upset that guns are used to kill animals (unless said animals are being killed for fun and just wasted - but that isn't a gun problem, that can be done with bows and arrows, sling shots, electricly charged rods...)
It may seem strange that I'm fairly anti going out to war, and killing on somebody else's turf, but I would be more then upset at losing my right to bare arms as a means to remind my government that it derives it's power from me (I don't need to wave around or even own said gun - as long as my right to own it and the realistic possibility that I could legally obtain said gun remains intact, that is protection enough (from my government going despot on me) for me personally. Whoops, we weren't supposed to get into the politics, just the tact of addressing other's gun ownership.
Hehehehe...I think I like Henry's suggestion the best. Well, from what I glean, it seems you all think I wouldn't be to extreme to kind of ask about how weapons are stored in a home I leave my child with. That makes me feel better.
Aliza, to briefly answer your question: research shows that the mere exposure to weapons can increase aggression. So, just seeing a gun (on TV, in real life etc.) can make you more aggressive. There is more research on similar stuff, but that's some of the things I'm talking about. Clearly, the most compelling danger from a weapon is it's inappropriate use that can hurt/kill someone. But, there are other things associated with it that I'm not a fan of. With that said though, I realize there are many people who have weapons and handle them carefully, judiciously and probably appropriately. Therefore I don't see a need to fight over it. But, I still have my views.
Sophia has been in Switzerland. But, she hasn't been in a Swiss home. :)
Dude, I totally didn't mean to imply that your fear and hatred of guns is irrational. Is that how I sounded? I wrote that comment pretty late at night, so I apologize if that's how I came across. I was just pointing out an interesting but only slightly relevant fact. Trivia, if you will.
No, I feel the same as you. I think it's very reasonable to want to keep guns out of your home and keep your child out of homes that have guns in them. How do you do go about doing that without offending your entire acquaintance? Not really sure. I think you should just inquire about it in a direct but polite way, and if people get mad and don't want to be your friends anymore, then they weren't really your friends to begin with.
How common is it for someone to carry a concealed weapon? And more importantly, why on earth does someone feel it's necessary to pack heat at social occasions? I think people that exercise their right to bear arms all the time watch too much TV.
I, along with everyone else, support your right to protect your child however you see fit. The way to avoid offense when doing so is to frame the request by acknowledging that you know everyone might not agree with you. "I know this might seem like I'm overprotective, but..." "This might seem quirky to you but it's important to me and I reserve the right to be quirky in my own home *laugh laugh*(or in the homes where I leave my baby)."
I don't think a carefully worded sign would be offensive either. I do, however think it might be more dangerous to have people leaving guns in their cars outside of your house than keeping them on their person, so you might want to tell them before hand.
I knew a man with a concealed weapons permit, who just always had his gun with him. He was going to a concert once, and had taken public transportation. When he realized he hadn't taken his gun off at home and they wouldn't let him in with the gun on him, he didn't have a car to leave it in. So he hid it behind a vending machine. Obviously he should have just gone home, but since he didn't I feel like everyone would have been safer had he just taken the gun into the theater concealed like it was than leave it out for lunatics to find.
Good point Talyn! I'll definitely think about this more and try to figure out what I want to do and then how to do it in the least offensive way I'm capable of. But, seeing how I'm so good at offending I figured I'd get some input before hand. :)
Mere exposure to weapons can increase aggression? Just seeing inanimate objects? Or do the people have to see the objects used violently? If just the objects themselves increase aggression children should not see yoyos, sticks, rocks, fists - they are all objects humans have a history of using as weapons, that I've let my boys handle just in the past week.
Also this is not a good reason to not wont someone carrying a concealed weapon, since the whole point of concealing it, is that it's not seen.
I wouldn't allow my sons to play one of those murder fantasy video games anymore than I would let them watch porn. I see nothing healthy in either of those activities, and I do believe they would be harmful to my children. I will let them (after they have taken gun safety) shoot a Turkey, Bull, or Deer that they intend to eat. It may at first seem counter intuitive, but I think that being involved in the process of converting the animal into the meal increases one's respect for life in general. Meat that you looked in the eye, is hard to take for granted. I think Amis, people in general really, would have an easier time eating meat in moderation if they had to help it from the field to the plate. So I think that with guns (like most anything) there are good uses and bad.
My brother Spencer says the people he wouldn't want his kids around when their guns are out, are people he wouldn't want his kids around any time. I think there's some truth to that, but then I don't think my boys at 3 and under are mature enough to be handling any guns just yet. They haven't completely mastered obeying when I tell them to put their shoes on the right feet, so they obviously aren't mature enough to obey the don't point a gun at anything you don't want to shoot (therefore no pointing at humans) rule; so I think, at this point, I'd rather not have my sons and guns involved in the same activity.
Aliza, as I said, this is not going to be a discussion on guns. So, I won't say any more on the subject. I'm fine with people killing/hunting their own food. So, go ahead. I was merely responding to your question. It's simply that psychological research has shown that exposure to weapons (just seeing one, or playing with a toy gun even) increases aggression. It serves as an 'aggression cue'. That's all. I'm not a fan of violence, and so just as I'm trying to avoid violent games and movies in my house, I'd like to avoid violent toys or weapons for that matter. I'm fine with other people handling this differently.
Rocks, sticks and yoyos apparently don't serve as aggression cues, or maybe they just haven't researched them. So, they're not relevant items of concern to me at the moment.
This isn't about guns? I thought it was. Anyway, if our point is to have a standing army, like I imagine it is in Switzerland, I think maybe we could have city arsenals. Or a place for our local street to contain our weapons for when we actually need them (like when our country gets invaded or the government tries to control us with force), what do you think about that?
H
Henry, stop discussing! Oh, and before I forget, Julie I understood you right. I don't think you were saying I was irrational. No worries.
I think I won't worry about guns, but just take Henry and Sophia and move somewhere really secluded, where we never see anyone. Except for Henry in his practice. That way we should be ok.
You might be interested to know that (at least in Utah, and there are likely similar laws in the other States) that individuals and organizations (like the Church) have a right to register their property as gun-free zones and it is the responsibility of the concealed carriers to make themselves aware of where these places are and leave their guns elsewhere when visiting.
I'm sorry if I upset you Fran, I always have to play the Devil's advocate and ask about the other side of any coin/view/argument. What I was trying to get across, but doubt that I did, was that I believe that seeing guns used in a violent way against humans even in a "pretend" fashion as on TV or in video games is harmful to human minds and behavior. However I think that there are ways to teach a person to use a gun that wouldn't have that same effect. So when I'm rich and famous I'll fund a study to see if that is the case.
In response to Henry (but don't tell Fran that we are still discussing things) Roughly 2 and a half centuries ago, some British Citizens around a place called Concord gathered a bunch of weapons (guns, cannons, and the like) all together in one spot. The British Army blew the stockpile sky-high and a little skirmish ensued that Americans call the Revolutionary War (the British call it the War of Rebellion I believe). Anyway Americans decided communal weapons storage wasn't the best strategy for demanding respect from your own government - and the Right to Bare Arms was immortalized on paper. Just things to consider in determining how to store your weapons.
Ha, I liked your little typo Aliza - the right to bare arms. That's what I'm all about. Hehehe.
By the way, without discussing, I think I was totally understanding what you were trying to communicate (illegally :). I agree that weapons can be used appropriately, and that just because someone owns a gun, or has seen a gun or whatever, they're going to be violent/criminal/killer machines. There are always two sides to everything. And I can see those sides. They just don't outweigh the other sides I see for me personally. But, as I said, I know people have different views and I respect that, and with this topic I for once wasn't interested in having a heated debate. :) You may be disappointed, but I'm proud of myself for not having a discussion.
Well, Fran, I'm not reading all of the other comments...just because of time. But my thoughts are that you should really just ask. People who have guns in their house have them because they've made a decision and I don't think it's a decision they're trying to hide from anybody. If you're wondering if people have them in their house I would go right ahead and ask.
I've had the same thought about guns and people having them in their house...whether for hunting or concealment for protection. it's always good to be aware. And usually, especially if these people have guns and children they should be doing all they can to be the safest they can. So why not ask them, I don't think they'd have anything to hide.
If you dont ask, then you dont know. In the event that you were to leave your child in the care of someone who didnt store their guns properly and your child ended up as a headline in the local newspaper as a victim of X...you would NEVER stop kicking yourself for not asking!
I too am anti-gun in my home. My husbands step father passed away. My brother-in-law showed up at my home with a shotgun that the step father wanted my husband to have. He drove 500 miles to deliver this gun to my husband. I sent him back home with the gun. He should have asked if we were interested.
My husbands Uncle died. My husband drove 500 miles to his hometown and came back with a different shotgun that his Uncle left to him! He didnt ask, as my husband he KNOWS my views! He was very close to his Uncle and this gun has special meaning to him.
We have agreed that it is to stay stored in the closet, unloaded and we will NEVER purchase any amo for it of any kind....EVER. So while we do have it, it could never hurt anyone. Although I am still trying to talk him into giving it to his father or something.
My father-in-was was in the Army for 20 years and retired. He has loaded guns all over his home, and by all over, I mean under seat coushions etc. You will be sitting on it and never know its there. He claims them totally safe because there is no way that a child could cock the gun to shoot it. News headlines disagree ;)
I dont allow my children in his home. They are 2 and 7 and I have no desire to have one of them even handle a gun.
You have to ask, it is your right and responsibility as a parent to know what your child *could* be exposed to, or have access to.
You must ask if you feel strongly against the issue.
The converstaion could be very simple.
"Do you have guns in your home?"
"Please tell me how you store them."
No need to give details or have a long converstaion about it. I have found that responsible gun owers dont mind the question at all. I dont give them my personal view, because they didnt ask for it.
I just want to know that my child is safe.
so i saw you were a friend of laura williams on facebook so i started reading your blog...i also live in columbus (riverside ward)...anyway...i would totally ask people about guns. and actually i am someone who would have guns in their home (although we don't right now) and wouldn't care if someone asked me. i always picture germans to be very logical and abrupt, so i thought it was funny you didn't want to ask people if they had guns or not. maybe some of that american political correctness is rubbing off on you :)
so i saw you were a friend of laura williams on facebook so i clicked on your blog...i also live in columbus (riverside ward)...anyway...i would totally ask people about guns. and actually i am someone who would have guns in their home (although we don't right now) and wouldn't care if someone asked me. i always picture germans to be very logical and abrupt, so i thought it was funny you didn't want to ask people if they had guns or not. maybe some of that american political correctness is rubbing off on you :) i'd be more worried about people having a dog in their house, or inappropriate things like porn! people usually keep their guns locked up. i always lock our dog up when kids come over, i really doubt she'd ever bite, but you never know.
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