Joseph Smith said something once like 'we teach them correct principles and then let them govern themselves' (I think it went something like that). I'm a big fan on that concept, and it's definitely how I want to raise my kids. I want them to understand true concepts and principles and then learn to apply them to the world and do their own thing. For example, I don't want to just say "no R-rated (or whatever rated) movies". I want them to learn what is good to watch and what is not, and then make choices based on that regardless of rating.
But just now in the shower I was actually thinking about teaching principles of modesty. I remembered how last summer a little girl (of 4 years) commented on me wearing an 'immodest' swim suit. It was a two-piece that covered everything but I guess maybe she was taught that two-piece swimsuit are immodest. I felt like an idiot. First of all because I tried very hard to find a modest swim suit, and secondly because it's really hard to find ANY kind of swim swear in my 'modest' cup size of H that isn't revealing in some way. This was my first two-piece, and the only piece I could find that I felt was fitting my body and being modest. And now I had this little girl declared me 'immodest'. I wasn't happy.
So I got thinking. I thought about whether it's effective to teach little kids that this piece or that piece is immodest. I'd be so embarrassed if Sophia at some point went up to someone telling them about their immodest clothes - that maybe aren't really immodest (because I don't think my swimwear was immodest at all). Last year in an ensign, Elder Nelson I think, defined modesty as behaving or dressing in a way that aims to draw attention of to ourselves and our bodies. I thought that was an interesting definition. He didn't talk about uncovered shoulders or two-piece swimsuits - he spoke of intentions. I love this definition. And just now I thought, I want to teach my children to develop a sense of modesty that has less to do with clothes and more with the actual principle of modesty. If I want them to cover up in some way I want them to understand why (and by why I'm not talking about 'because it's a commandment' or 'because Heavenly Father wants you to' or some other blank statement that doesn't explain WHY). I hope I can teach the principle and then have them succeed in applying them to their lives.
And since we're already talking about modesty, clothes and kids - I've never understood anyway why some cover little kids up like adults. For all I care they can even go naked. I don't see any immodesty in that. But if someone has a good argument why they should be all covered up (as in nothing sleeveless for example, or letting them play naked in a pool or stuff like that) I'd like to hear it. Unless it's the "teach them while they're young" argument. It doesn't fly for me because I can teach them from a young age what is modest at what age and why we should choose certain dress styles over others. While I think certain things are always inappropriate, I think others truly are age-dependent. How we dress, for me, is certainly age-relevant. For example, I think one big reason to cover up more at some point is the sexual attention you can create through clothing. But there is nothing sexual in a child's body (unless you're a nasty pedophile). So, they certainly wouldn't be drawing attention in any way with their bodies.
But I guess, in the end, all I want anyway is for my children to think for themselves and figure out what's 'right' and what's 'wrong' for them. And then go and do it. And not be worrying about what others do. I hope I can teach them that above all - that we don't worry about what other people do, but worry about our own actions.
Friday, May 15, 2009
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8 comments:
I like your posting and your thinking. I haven't given much thought to it yet since I have two boys, but my husband doesn't like me to wear "tight" (I call them "fit") clothes. He is much more conservative than I am. I think immodest could also be a one-piece swimming suit that reveals a little bit too much butt cheeks, or could be any modest clothing worn with a sexy walk or sensual demeanor. So, yes, I agree with you that modesty is in the intention. Personally, I have seen some lawfully "modest" women walk and move around with sexual intentions, and it is just the same.
I also disagree with the motto:"If you have nice shoulders (butt, cleavage) you should show them" (like Michelle Obama). Of course, we know which areas to cover and we should dress at our
advantage. Finally, I have to say that I think rules set by the family in addition to general teaching of principles, is beneficial. For example, if my 14 years-old daughter wears a skirt well above the knee, she'll have to change before going out. And I'm sure she will, because I'll take her shopping for a nice dress if she does. So in summary, teach good principles and enforce them with incentives if needed.
Oh, and one last thing, I can't wait until we all wear a white drape, I've had enough of trying to find something decent in all the zillions stores out there. For crying out loud, the textile industry is huge, designers are everywhere, and there is not one lasting, quality, well-cut, flattering, classy, item out there. Ok, i'm done
Okay, you caught me. I do sometimes wear clothes that some might consider too tight or too revealing. And I also wear a bikini. I know it's bad, but I just can't help it, I hate one-piece swim suits! I really don't wear it to draw attention to my body, I promise. It's just something I like to wear every once in a while. And I would never wear it with other LDS men around (although that's not the point, of course, and I know it).
Which brings me to my point. If you have a great body and you dress modestly and you have no intention of being immodest, well chances are that some people will find you immodest. Stuff a fat person in a mermaid dress and people think it's ridiculous and ill-considered. Put that dress on a well-meaning, athletic woman and everybody thinks she is trying to draw attention to herself. Or like you said, if you have an H cup (really?! go FRAN!!!) any swimsuit and most dresses will look immodest.
It's a difficult question to which I have no answer whatsoever. I like Elder Nelson's quote, although that won't keep people from judging (and judging wrong).
What an interesting post Fran. I love the quote you posted. I am laughing about the 4 year-old comment however because Ken and I were just discussing this. He has asked me to teach Grace to stop saying people are immodest, and teach her that everyone can make their own choices. What is funny, is I do teach all of my children not to judge others but at that age things are black and white. You cannot teach a 4 year-old that something is wrong for me but not for others. They desire guidelines. With that being said don't take offense. I wear a tankini because it is actually more modest on me than a one piece but Alexandra will not wear one. I find that when you teach the principles, no matter how you decide to, and one of those principles is to love as Christ does, when children get to the appropriate age of understanding they will stick to what has been taught and accept others. That of course is an ideal and parenting is never that easy. I pray constantly on what/how I should parent/teach my children and feel constantly guided.
Marie, you're an artist. Why don't you design some nice, modest clothes? I might buy them (if you cater to my measurements :).
Isa, now I think you should go see your bishop! Just kidding. I think it's definitely true that people will be quick to judge, and maybe especially unfairly in regards to those more attractive. It seems to be our tendency to judge others quickly when usually we hardly know enough to make a fair judgement. I think it's great to realize that in terms of modesty not 'one size fits all' (no pun intended) and personal consideration and thought is probably as important as with the word of wisdom.
Maren, little kids comments don't offend me and really, I wasn't offended, rather surprised and maybe a little frustrated to think that maybe despite my best efforts some child saw in me the 'bad' example. :( I think you're totally right that kids can't always understand all the nitty gritty details and need simple and clear guidelines. I was just thinking that I may want to change the focus of the guideline maybe from clothes to other things - so for example, I may say " we don't run around naked in the city" or something. Or something like that. How I'm going to do that - I do not know. Most likely I'll fail, and my kids will say embarrassing stuff all day long. Maybe they'll say something like 'humphumphump'. :)
Interesting post Fran. One day I'll find the time to post some of my own. So, a few thoughts/comments/questions--on kids I have no problem with naked kiddos, kids wearing tanks and such but what I don't like is when the little girl styles mimic the slutty adult women's clothing. In some ways I think that sexualizes the child which is no good in my opinion. My daughter turns 10 and is getting to where it is starting to matter what she wears. She also wants to be a fashion designer so we talk a lot about the kind of clothes she should design, and such. Discussions about modesty and breastfeeding have come up a lot in my midwife/natural birth circles and I wonder sometimes about that. Something that shouldn't be sexualized becomes that way in our oversexualized society and becomes almost taboo which is ridiculous.
AMEN Reni. I totally agree with you. It really bothers me when I see young kids dressed up in something that seems so unnatural to their childhood level (usually very sexualized clothing). I think the most stunned I've ever been was at the Orem mall. I saw a mom with her two daughter who, I'd guess were maybe 10/11 and 12/13-ish. They were looking for shoes. So was I. But when I looked and saw the two young, skinny girls with no boobs and no but, wearing tons of make-up, those teeny tiny shorts that barely cover your bum, supertight t-shirts and were then, believe it or not, picking these super-high heel stiletto shoes, I was about to pass out - until I saw the mom. That's what she was wearing.
I thought it was pretty sad to see such young girls, who by age should still be innocent and clueless about some of life's fun mysteries, already being prepped through their clothes to be conceived in a certain way. And I think for young kids to dress like that when they are still so clueless, is doing nothing but inviting trouble.
Yep, it doesn't matter how great your efforts are, your kids will embarrass you and will make you the most proud you've ever been. Thanks for the call. LOL
I had to laugh that you were thinking about this in the shower. And when you said something about what we wear being age-dependent, I would have responded, "So when you're 80 years old and no longer sexy, it's okay to wear mini-skirts." Ha ha.
On a serious note: I like the "principle" definition of modesty better. Maybe that kind of definition is actually more restrictive than what you can/cannot wear definition.
Henry
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