I just had to think about it the other day. In Relief Society specifically. We had the young women visit (as they do I think once a month or something). And, when they were about to recite their theme, as always, they asked everyone to stand. And, as always, I didn't. First of all, I don't know the Young Women's theme in English. I guess I could look it up and memorize it, but ya know? What for? And secondly I just don't like to stand for this. I can't remember if I we did that in Germany in Church or not. But, whatever the case - I just don't see why I have to stand for the Young Women's theme.
And voila! Suddenly I was thinking about Mormon culture and all the weird things we just do, just because. And not only is there Mormon culture - there is Mormon culture + culture of country mixed together, which leads to really interesting things.
So, why DO we stand up for the Young Women's theme? I figured it may be out of respect. I'm all for respect, but I don't understand why we would respect some theme that much, but then not stand for every prayer, or scripture we read or...ya know. I think those things deserve far more respect. So, maybe it's not respect. Maybe it's just an opportunity to stretch legs. But then, why ask everyone to stand? And really, what's the point of just reciting a theme over and over. It seems so military-esque to me. There are far more effective ways to internalize and understand a theme like that than just reciting it. I ended up deciding it's just a weird culture thing. Something everyone does, and no one thinks about (and probably no one in the US in Church would really question because we don't question what happens in Church, except in Germany, where members seems to question everything including the prophet...).
Here is another Mormon culture bit, also unique to the US. The whole political thing. Somehow, being a democrat/republican is always some sort of issue in Church here. And there always seems to be a notion that as a 'good Mormon' you can only be Republican, or you cannot vote this way or that way. Whatever. I don't know how quite to describe it, but political parties seems somehow come hand in hand with Church stuff. Now, it's not like members in Germany don't care/talk about politics or whatever. But I cannot say that I'd know which party any of my German friends vote for. I don't know that I've ever discussed that, though we've discussed politics. I don't know that people necessarily care whether you vote one way or another, though I could see some people thinking you're nuts if you vote for some of the weird, extremes parties we have. How come it's such a divisive thing in Church here in the US, and not in Germany? Or is it, and I just haven't noticed?
Mormon culture is weird. That's all I really want to say. And to be honest, I don't necessarily like it. Of course, since members can't just 'shed' who they are, and their cultural upbringing when we gather in Church, there will always be some sort of culture surrounding Church membership. And just being Mormon creates its own culture as well. I guess, sometimes I just wish we could leave some of those cultural aspects behind, and just make it all strictly about the gospel. But, just thinking this is probably part of the culture I'm bringing into Church.
Thursday, August 5, 2010
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You know, I've thought about this, too. They do it here in Finland (standing up and reciting the YW theme). I don't think they ever did it in Germany, and I can't remember EVER visiting Relief Society. Which leads me to believe that is actually a NEW policy , and not an old tradition.
Nowadays, every mother of a teenage girl is asked to work on My Progress Booklet herself as well. That's new, too.
So my guess is, by standing up and reciting it together, they want to just remind the women, specifically, the mothers, to be good examples to their teenage daughters. And I also think it creates a bond of sisterhood among all the women who are standing up and reciting it together.
Of all the weirdness that is inherent to Mormon culture, I actually think this is the least weird. I think it's kind of nice.
I DO think the Republican vs Democrat issue is VERY weird, but it isn't actually Mormon culture. It is AMERICAN culture.
What is weird to me, in terms of Mormon culture, is the gluttony that always seems to accompany Church activities. Here we go preach about healthy living, and as soon as we get a chance, we stuff four faces with heavy cream and artificial sweeteners of all sorts.
Oh, I don't think the standing up and reciting thing is something they just do in Relief Society when the girls visit. It's something they do in YW's too.
I'm all for setting examples, and sisterhood, but why stand? We could hold hands. We could just recite it sitting. Why the need to stand?
I don't like it. It doesn't create a feeling of sisterhood for me at all. Rather it makes me feel like I'm in the military. I'd feel more connected, for example, if people shared how they've applied a certain YW value that week or something.
Anyway, I think the politics thing IS very American, but seems particularly strong to me in the Church (like party membership being synonomous to people with worthiness or something). To me it's weird American Mormon Culture.
I actually had to think of the food after I went to bed. I particularly have to think of all the BBQs Mormons have (here at least) as ward activities and in general. I mean, I don't think D and C 89 was very cryptic when it said to eat meat sparingly and it's pleasing unto the Lord to not eat it at all except in times of famine and cold. I don't think we're in a famine, nor is it cold in the summer.
All the unhealthy food we eat adds to that. I think we eat at lot at Church activities because it gives people a reason to come and socialize. I'm not opposed to that. And as students it's quite nice to get free food.
I just think it's weird that we don't try to eat healthy at those things. Sometimes I feel like I'm the only person who knows there is such a thing as a green salad (which is usually what I bring - an arugula salad with cucumbers, tomatoes, avocado, onions...and a vinaigrette instead of Ranch -yuck!).
So, I'm with you on the food. And that really seems to be the same no matter where.
When I was in YW, whoever the girl was who led us in the theme, signaled that it was time to recite it by saying "stand for truth and righteousness" (which happens to be the YW motto)so it just kind of seemed natural to stand.
As far as the whole democrat/republican thing; most US Mormons today might be shocked to know that UT voted overwhelmingly for Democrats in the 30s and through WWII, a shift occurred after Johnny came marching home, so that UT is now pretty solidly Republican territory, but um if one knows a bit of history it becomes obvious that being Mormon doesn't mean you should belong to any particular party. In fact I've heard tale that in order for UT to be admitted to the Union they had to have voters from multiple parties, so the Prophet divided the conference congregation down the middle of the room and told one half they belonged to this party and the other half would vote for the other party.
The worst of all is Utah American Mormon Culture. I remember my first few months at BYU, I honestly felt like I was suddenly living outside of the United States.
Also I remember on many occasions Sarah and I would talk about how the Waite's can't really be from Utah because they act too normal.
The political thing REALLY bugs me. I remain independent for the most part (sometimes I'll register with a party so that I can vote in the primary election though) but I still have a good number of Mormon Democrat friends and I had a few professors at BYU too. I'm pretty sure some of the apostles are Democrats too but many people do have this ignorant assumption that good Mormons should be Republican. I don't know where it started but it should stop. Now.
I think the food issue is just that America has such poor food traditions that most people just don't know how to eat healthy and prepare foods from scratch, just in general. I would argue with Isa's assessment that heavy cream is bad. (and dairy isn't mentioned in the word of wisdom so you can't really say people in the church shouldn't eat it in the same way you can talk about reduced meat consumption that is explicitly stated. That is just your personal preference.) Just do a little searching and you'll find tons of info that the "saturated fat is bad for you" hypothesis is a bunch of garbage. I have personal experience to back it up--since switching to full fat milk, real butter, full fat yogurt, and cream (we put butter and cream on our oatmeal, top our pancakes with fresh fruit and real whipped cream, and have some kind of cream sauce with dinner regularly) my doctor said I have the best cholesterol/lipids profile she's seen in 20 years.
I've thought a lot about our Mormon music traditions too though. Why do we only use Classical Western Religious Music? In Jesus's time they would have sung Hebrew music (some of it very beautiful and spiritual sounding to me,) I've been moved by South African religious music, Indian ragas, Folk tunes, etc. that I feel would be totally appropriate in a sacrament setting but only a set number of hymns are permitted from a very limited range.
In India the LDS church is the only religious building where people keep their shoes on (likely because of some germophobic American missionary that insisted on it) but what does that really say to the Indian Natives about how we feel about our building when shoes are removed before entering any other mosque or temple there?
Culture is certainly an interesting beast.
I have an idea. I think we stand while we say the Young Women theme because the theme is like a promise and, in this country at least, we often stand when we make formal promises. For example, when you take an oath in court, when you are sworn into a certain office, or yes, when you join or receive a promotion in the military. Although they never say "I promise," when the Young Women repeat the theme they are affirming their commitment to be a witness for God and keep certain values. The repetition every week makes their commitments easy to recall to mind. I know that as a young woman I repeated the theme many times to myself when I was in tempting or stressful situations. I found it very comforting.
I have no comment on the political party thing. The idea of belonging to a party at all offends my sense of self-determination, although I respect the fact that others feel differently.
Huh, the hymn one is a good one Reni. I've never even thought about that, but I guess it's true...
And while Isa abstains from dairy, and a lot of meat, I still think she has a point with overall sugarness. I mean, isn't is that we usually have about 10 times the amount of sugary, artery-clogging deserts at a Church activity over veggies? And, I think the amount we eat is also a very Mormon-y thing (I really think this goes beyond US borders!). I always feel that the amounts of food at Church activities are an attempt to literally feed the 5000 thousand. So much food, and always worry that it's not enough.
I've told Henry a few times while he was activities committee chair that we don't have to stuff the members till they can roll home on their bellies. Hmph...
And Troy, I agree Utah American Mormon culture is the ultimate beast. Imagine my culture shock. :)
The Waits definitely are too normal.
As for the YW theme, I think I should definitely clarify that I have NOTHING against the theme itself. I think it's a very valuable and meaningful theme/motto/statement. I just wondered why on earth we stand for it.
Julie, I think you actually may have had an idea there that makes sense for me. I could see that...
Aliza, I can see your point as well.
I think my main qualm with the whole thing is that I just have this aversion towards any mindless activity - whatever that may be. When I feel that people just stand and recite something without knowing why, or giving it any thought, it just bothers me and I don't want to be part of it.
I think memorizing the YW theme is very valuable. I do think though that also discussing and figuring out how those things in theme specifically apply to us, and our daily lives may be even more important. If it's a promise we make, then I think it'd be so important to discuss what it is we're doing, and why we stand for it etc.
Otherwise, doesn't it just become like a 'standard prayer' where we put little thought into it, and just blurp out the same sentences we always say?
Which would lead me to another Mormon Culture pet peeve: "bless this food that it may strengthen and nourish us". ARgh...I always figure, if I eat healthy, it will bless and nourish my body. If we're about to dig into donuts and jello...well, what kind of miracle is God supposed to perform there? And why does everyone seem to use those very exact words? It makes me appreciate the prayers of converts etc. more. So fresh. So news. So void of 'mormon phrases'.
I remember back home in Germany a guy saying the opening prayer in Sacrament. He started it off with "Hello Heavenly Father. It's us, your children from the Hannover Ward". Unique. Heartfelt. And kind of funny on top.
I personally couldn't care less what other people are (in or out of the church) politically. And as for standing when we recite the Young Women's theme...do you really think Y.W would learn it if they didn't have to recite it every week. The words are really important. And also, by standing, you have to drop whatever else you are doing...doodling hearts, looking into your binder, and actually focus on what is being said.
So.. as you know I am the yw leader in my ward here in Switzerland. And we always stand up for theme and we always stood up for the theme in Germany in yw.
I do think it has a lot to do with respect. But also.. have you worked with teenagers lately? Then you know that on sunday they slouch in their chairs and are about to fall asleep any minute. So a little bit of standing up does wonders to the alertness :) And the yw theme is there to remind them (hammer in their minds, if you will) who they are and what they stand for as young women in the church. I love saying the theme every sunday because I know that during the week so many other influences come into our lives (the teenagers live) and we usually also have a spiritutal thought in the opening exercise that goes together with a value that we recite from the theme. I also think it does help them to gain respect for themeselves and love for themselvs reciting and reminding themselves each sunday that they are a daughter of God!
AHHHHH! Let me repeat: I DO NOT have issues with the YW theme. I don't think there is ANYTHING wrong with memorizing it, or even reciting it every week. I'm just questioning whether the standing is necessary or why we even do it. Fine. So now you all came up with a bunch of possibilities as to why we stand. Where you aware of that BEFORE? Did you consciously think of why you're standing when you recite the theme and what you're really saying????
That's my only issue here. Not whether the YW theme is any good or not, and whether young women should learn it or not. That's NOT the issue. Rather how effective the standing and drilling is, and why we stand to begin with.
And if we stood in Germany for the YW theme, and I can't even remember then apparently the standing didn't make a big long-term impression on me nor did just drilling the theme help me much. I can barely remember it in German, and I can't recall any instance where I felt stronger as a YW because of the theme in my head. Sorry. I'm not saying this can't be the case for others. I'm sure it doesn't hurt. But, I do wonder if there aren't more meaningful ways than just 'drilling' to bring the message of the theme home.
P.S. Also, I don't think teenagers are much different today than they were 20 years ago. They all slouch in their chairs and are ready to fall asleep. And yeah...I have worked with teenagers up till just a few years ago. And I still managed to teach them stuff without them standing for whatever I wanted them to learn. :)
So, in the end I stand by my assertion that this is a weird cultural thing we've taken on that everyone does without much thinking as towards why and what purpose it serves. You want the kids to focus, and stretch? Have them stand up and sit down at different parts. Then they really have to focus on the words. You want respect? Ok. Let them stand then for anything that deserves their respect to remind them how important it is to be respectful. Nothing wrong with standing in my book or anything if you know why you're doing it and what purpose it serves.
When Sophia grows up and becomes YW age, I hope she'll learn the YW's theme. But more importantly I hope that she understands and internalizes what that really means to her, and that she's able to think for herself, and make conscious choices for her life vs. just going with the crowd and doing stuff without thinking about it.
Ok,...I think my last post came out a bit strong. I just want to be clear that I have no issues with the YW theme itself or girls learning it. I do think that's superimportant.
But, I am challenging how we learn it. I had to think of studies they've done with children in regards to racism. They tried to figure out if children learned to 'not be racist' simply by watching movies or interactions that included people of different races. Basically, the studies showed that nothing worked to prevent racism unless parents had a discussion with their kids where they directly told them and taught them about racism and that everyone is equal or however you wanted to word it.
So, I'm sure similar principles apply in Church. I don't know if people get the right message by just doing something without teaching why we do it.
If I dragged our kids to Church every Sunday, and never explained why we go, and why we take the Sacrament, do you think they'd learn why we go? Someone has to tell them and teach them.
If we need to stand for the YW theme, I think someone should tell us why we do it. :) Unless you simply want them to stand so they don't do other stuff. I think then you could still tell them that. Just imagine: If we'd explain this, I'd probably wouldn't have started to wonder about this to being with? I'd know. And as it goes, no one else can tell me for sure either WHY we do it. We just have a bunch of ideas.
Does anyone know if the YW manual or some other handbook says something about it?
The YW Motto is "Stand for Truth and Righteousness", the theme is the rather longer thing that gets recited while everyone is standing - just wasn't sure if that was clear. Anyway Fran, the reciting is just about all there is time for when the YW attend opening exercises in RS, but I do remember quite a bit of discussion about the various parts of the theme throughout YW (lessons, personal progress, New Beginnings Night, Girls Camp) All that learning can't be packed into opening exercises of a meeting, but hopefully reciting the theme each week helps reinforce that learning.
Oh and um about the UT Mormon culture; anyone basing their view of Utah Mormon Culture on there experiences from BYU, please give me a break. If you gather Mormons, literally from around the world and congregate them at a University that is technically in UT, you will get a picture of Utah Mormon Culture? Having lived a good portion of my life amongst the Mormons in Utah (off campus), and also having attended BYU long enough to earn a degree, I have to say BYU culture and Utah Mormon culture are not the same thing.
Well, Aliza I think you have a good point with the Utah vs. BYU thing. I don't think it's identical, but Utah Mormon Culture is still the weirdest. :)
As for the YW theme...and motto, well I didn't even know what the motto was until you mentioned it. I don't think I've ever heard it till now.
And you're right, there isn't time for everything, and certainly very limited time in RS. That's fine. I don't think everything always needs to be discussed in detail all the time. And, I'm sure having grown up in Idaho or was it Utah, you've had a different YW experience than a lot of other YW in the world. I do remember talking about all kinds of stuff, but I don't recall an instance where we discussed in a meaningful way how the YW values applied to my life directly. We just always went over what they were. Phhhhh...
Also, while there may not be much time for YW stuff in the RS society, I still think we need to talk about certain things to a certain degree. In our ward, there are converts who've never been to YW, and who don't have daughters in YW. How will they learn what the crap is going on when suddenly everyone is standing and reciting some mystical chant? You think the elders tell them? Who will teach all those weird little parts of our Mormon culture. It doesn't have to take long to say that we'll recite the YW's theme, which was written to help the YW remember some of the most important things to strive for in their personal development, and we will all rise for it, so we can focus on the words, and honor the promise we're making. Or whatever you want to say...Two sentences. Only takes 2 minutes. I'd find that more meaningful than "good-news minute" or going over thousands of announcements.
Anyway, I think I'm just nitpicking anyway now. I made my point regarding the YW theme, and in the end I could go on about all other kind of weird things we do in Church that probably have no specific purpose or origin, and yet we all do it, when maybe doing things differently would be perfectly fine, and maybe even more effective.
It's just part of our Mormon culture...
I knew someone would be offended by my criticism of Utah. It's fair to separate BYU from Utah culture but still, I spent a fair amount of time away from Provo and felt similarly. I even attended a non-student ward for a year and thought it was the pits. Everybody's experiences will be different but there's a reason that the term "Utah Mormon" exists. I don't like that it's viewed as a pejorative though and it tends to lump everybody together but there is a difference. Certainly there is a difference. Not in level of faithfulness necessarily but culturally.
Troy
Fran I think you make some great points, you may want to bring up with your RS President about providing an opportunity for all those who may not have attended YW (and the rest of us who could use a refresher course anyway) to discuss the significance of what we recite with the YW when they visit.
Since you ask Fran, as a child I lived in Utah and Maryland, as an adult I've lived in Utah, Hawaii, Canada, and Germany. I visit Idaho frequently because my parents moved there while I was on my mission, but I've never called Idaho home.
Troy, in case your comment was directed at me, I wasn't offended by what you call criticism of Utah. I did hope to highlight the ridiculous (dare I say illogical) nature of our prejudices (like thinking that lumping Mormons from all over the world in one Utah location will give us an accurate picture of what Utah Mormons are like).
Since I find that prejudices speak more to the failings of those holding them than to the ones against whom they are held, it's more enjoyable to laugh at the ignorance behind a prejudice than seethe at its slander.
I have to say I have laughed a long time at the prejudice against the mythical "Utah Mormon", since my Californian mother was never going to marry one and had to eat her words after she met my Dad. The thing is I know Utah Mormons who want to try everything "good Mormons" would never do, and I know Utah Mormons who condemn every living thing that crosses their path for some alleged violation of some commandment, and I know Utah Mormons who pick and choose which commandments apply to them and I know some who are so worried about how imperfectly they keep the commandments that they forget to live the scripture which teaches us that "Men are that they might have joy" and some who try hard and trust the Lord to make up for their failings, and I know Utah Mormons who may have fit one category as teenagers and a different one as adults.
The Lord has long counseled his people not to get too attached to the traditions of their fathers', because it makes them harder to lead where he wants them to go - that applies to both the converts who have to shed parts of their old lives and third generationers who may have confused temporal programs in the Church with the eternal gospel.
ha! Isa, I liked your comments, all very true. I remember standing for the theme when I was in YW, don't remember ever going to RS to recite it. I would think the most logical reason for standing for it is like standing for the National Anthem or Pledge of Allegiance, the Prophet entering the room - for respect.
every mormon should be an independent in my view. and every mormon ought to go and search the lds.org archives about politics, socilism, etc and learn about what we've been taught. if you vote for someone who is in favor of partial birth abortion, then are you really following what Christ teaches? is socialism really about helping people or are there other reasons for it? What does the Book of Mormon teach us about why 2 great civilizations were lost and destroyed? Why does the BofM talk so much about government?
Anyway, those are just some questions I've been asking and seeking answers to the past 2 yrs or so. Just throwing your vote to someone to be a "different" kind of mormon, isn't smart or impressing anyone. Maybe sometimes a democrat is better than a rep. and maybe sometimes a 3rd party candidate is better. it's about studying the issues and the person, which most people just don't do. it really isn't too hard to know who is good and who is not.
I think as a people, we can definitely work on eating a little better, but then again most Americans need help w/ that too!
There are a lot of things in the Church that are done "just because"....it totally turns me off.
I need a good solid purpose for the things that I do in life/home/Church.
But I think that many (and certainly the 'Good Mormans' ) are afraid to speak out against these meaningless actions that are passed down.
So, I should comment on the YW thing one more time. I did a little research and was able to discover that they indeed have instructions from 'the top' to 'stand and recite' the theme. So, I guess, we're supposed to stand, though they didn't say way. Respect makes sense to me, and I'm fine with that(though I DO NOT stand for the pledge of allegiance nor the National Anthem, unless it's the German one). I'm still not a fan of just doing stuff without knowing why, but alas, nothing is lost to me by getting my big fat butt up and stand for something. I guess I don't have to challenge EVERYTHING that doesn't make sense to me.
And, I also found out (Aliza) that you're not supposed to ask the YW to stand by saying 'Please stand for truth and righteousness'. You're simply supposed to ask people to stand. Your ward needs to repent. :)
Liza, I agree with you that studying the political candidates carefully and then choosing the person who best represent your beliefs/issues etc. is important and how voting should be done. I would answer to your question whether you're following the teachings of Christ by voting for a person who supports abortion with "yes, possibly". I think if you vote for a person BECAUSE he supports abortion, then you're not really following Christ. But, you can't claim someone doesn't follow Christ because he voted for a candidate who doesn't live as Christ would want us to on all aspects. No candidate fits that bill. I'm pretty sure you could find something about any candidate that isn't in accordance with Christ's teachings, and then claim people aren't following Christ if they vote for such a person. I just don't think it works like that. I think if we support someone though because of his (unchristlike) views...well, that's a different issue. But, I really don't know many mormons (or any actually) who have voted for a democrat because he supports abortion. Anyway, funny that you'd bring that up, since I just had a very lengthy discussion about this very issue somewhere else.
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