Monday, May 18, 2009
Interesting Fact of Freedom
So, in preparations to have an educated discussion on vaccinations I've been reading away diligently. One thing I stumbled upon that startled me regarding the 'land of the free' was that vaccinations are actually mandatory. You can be denied school access, day care access, and be denied all kinds of governmental benefits if you're not vaccinated. Hmmmm, I thought. Then I wondered about Germany having mandatory vaccinations. And what do you know...they don't. Interesting, no?
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They are NOT mandatory! They try to make you think they are but trust me, you can fill out an exemption form anywhere in this country. (at least I'm pretty sure you can anywhere, but I should double check on that) Here, all you have to do is go to the health department and sign a waiver exemption form saying you oppose them for religious or philosophical reasons and submit that instead of the immunization record for school registration. I actually will be doing that this week as I'm sending my kids to public school next year for the first time.
That is interesting that they aren't mandatory in Germany. I wonder how the rates of those choosing not to be vaccinated compare between the 2 countries? On the other hand, my understanding is that home-schooling is completely illegal in Germany (the public school model actually originated in Prussia to create a moderately educated but subservient working class--I'm not a fan, obviously, but that's a different discussion)
Well, from what I read the philosophical exemption is not available in all States, and you can still be turned down by schools/daycares and government aid if you're not vaccinated. And supposedly the religious exemptions are hard to get. I think it's silly that you have to sign anything. I mean, this is a medical intervention on my body (or my children's bodies) - no one should be allowed to decide that I need to have a certain medical intervention or treatment or whatever and if I choose to not have it possibly exclude me from society by denying access to public facilities etc. If that's not discrimination, I don't know what is...
P.S. Homeschooling is not a legal option in Germany, but there are a bunch of alternative school models (like the Waldorf schools), and I've been reading reports about students studying on their own. I don't know what the legal background was for that, but I know in Bavaria they had students choose to study and prepare for their 'Abi'(final school exams) at home. I like home schooling and plan on doing it, but I think if we were in Germany, I wouldn't feel as strongly about doing homeschooling since I feel the public school system is working fairly well, and schools are pretty safe. (After all, I was able to attend BYU with only 10 years of schooling in Germany, and I graduated Magna Cum Laude - obviously my 10 years in Germany have prepared me well for College in the States...)
I think more flexibility in the schooling options in Germany would be great though.
They are not mandatory.
Thankfully, to me, all of the schools/institutions that my kids have attended have accepted the vaccine exemption forms. I don't like the fact that they could still deny us access on those grounds though.
(Unfortunately, to legally qualify for adoption I had to get my kids fully imunized..."to protect the baby"...hogwash!!)
It's a tricky thing. I am not in favor of forcing vaccinations on people. I think that would definitely be crossing a line. Nevertheless, vaccine rejectionists in great enough numbers put me and my children at greater risk, much like secondhand smoke does. Is it going too far to prohibit smoking in public buildings? I would say no.
There's a little appetizer for you before we have our big fight-- I mean discussion.
Vaccination isn't mandatory in Finland, either. In fact they always ask me at our check-ups with Fé if I want one. Having said that, I think most vaccinations are important and I honestly think parents who choose to not have their young children vaccinated for things like German measles are mad. My opinion. (And yes, I've read all the paranoid books on the matter).
As to home schooling: I think there are lessons to be learned in a school setting that you can never replicate at home, which is why I would always want my children to attend school. BUT I have to say that things are different in the US, where you just don't have as many alternatives and where you belong to a certain school district and can't choose which school you want your children to go to. I'd still prefer a private school over home schooling (if you have the funds).
Ok, let me rephrase. Vaccines are not mandatory by law per se. It's just that most states have made them mandatory to be admitted to school, college, daycare and certain government aids. So, I'd still call it discrimination. :) Philosophical exemptions are only available in 15 states, and Missipi and West Virginia don't even offer Religious Exemptions.
Julie, if vaccines are effective, unvaccinated children shouldn't put your 'vaccinated' children at risk. So, I don't see the problem. If second hand smoke can't get to me because of some 'magical' protection then I wouldn't mind people smoking wherever...(to use your comparison). But, I guess we better hold of just another day or two - the discussion is forthcoming. I promise... :)
No problem. I can wait. While you are reading, though, study up on the concept of herd immunity. Here's a link to the wikipedia article: herd immunity.
I've read about herd immunity. I don't see how it's beneficial to your argument of putting your (I assume vaccinated child) at greater risk, BUT...I think I'll get a proper discussion on vaccines started TODAY. So, for everyone else - hold your thoughts and then we can all go crazy in the appropriate post. :)
Fran
Oh, Fran, I hope I didn't offend you. I guess I'm just chomping at the bit here. I'm going to take a couple chill pills and wait for your post.
Is it OK if I link to it on my blog?
Actually herd immunity is relevant to that post from thejuliestblog (nice to know that I'll have at least one ally once this discussion gets raging) because fewer vaccinated individuals means a higher risk of a disease outbreak. And since vaccinations aren't 100% effective the greater risk of disease outbreak means a greater risk of infection in all segments of the population. However, and here's the important point, when outbreaks do occur (and they almost always start from somebody coming to the US from another country where vaccination isn't as common) it's the unvaccinated population that bears the brunt of it. Only about 5% of cases during an outbreak are in fully vaccinated people. But I'll hold it to that. I've got plenty of specific information that I'll unleash once we get started in earnest.
Troy
I do have to say that I liked how much shorter the school day was in Germany and how the kids came home for lunch and also how close the school was. I also liked the flexibility of some of the afterschool programs. If funds weren't an issue I would love to send my kids to private school or even hire private tutors but I think homeschooling is and should be a valid and legitimate option (and it is much cheaper!) I especially think its a good option for the younger years and in fact many European countries are better at sending kids to school later. I think 7 is a much better age for starting a public school than 4 or 5 which is part of why I chose to keep my kids home longer. I think the Charter school trend is a good one. Anyway, I think I'm way off topic :-) I just was thinking about how many non-vaxers are homeschoolers because of the "requirement" for vaccination that Fran mentioned in the post.
No Julie, you didn't offend me. Don't worry. I'm just trying to contain all our good arguments for the right post/setting. ;) Maybe I also need to do a post on homeschooling/education which I also think is a fascinating topic.
So, just keep your eyes open folks. The discussions are coming. ;)
P.S. yes, Julie, feel free to link it to your blog little horsey. ;)
Oh, phew! I'm so glad I didn't offend you. Totally understand about wanting to confine the discussion to the appropriate post (isn't that what I just said to you on my blog?). Still, I just have to say:
Troy, vaxes for the win!
OK, I'm done.
Homeschooling would be fun to discuss. I might disappoint you there, though, as I am all for it and planning to do it myself.
hehe...well, I just opened the discussion. ;) Now you can all go nuts. We'll discuss homeschooling another month probably, since I think the vaccine debate will be huge, and then I'll be exhausted for a while.
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