Wednesday, April 15, 2009

A Word on Taxation and the Like

Ok, I have a little pet-peeve, and it has to do with peoples complaints about the government stealing their money. First of all, I should say that I favor taxes to not be excessive, and that I have clear ideas on how I'd like tax money to be spent, and that I do not agree in many areas of politics how tax money is used, and that goes for both the conservative and liberal sides. I think the whole lot could do much better in many ways. I also do not necessarily favor the whole scope of the bail-out, yet I am not completely opposed to it (which however, would be a completely other debate). Now here is my issue: people complain about the "government stealing their money", and usually I hear these complains from conservative people, who are mad over the spending of tax money of the liberal side (right now I hear a lot of this in regards to Obama's stimulus plan, which I just want to point out originated, though not in its full scope with a CONSERVATIVE). This bothers me for one particular reason: I don't hear anyone complain about taxation in general, which I think is the original "theft". I just hear them being mad because it's not used how they want it, and so therefore suddenly it's theft. They never seem all mad when it's the conservative side, using tax money for ...let's say the military. But then when it's the liberal side, spending tax money on such wasteful, unjust endeavors like education or the poor, then suddenly they are being "forced" into things, and are being stolen from.

Well, I think taxation itself is the theft. No one should probably have to pay money to anyone if they don't want to. So, I'd be fine with people opposing taxes (though I don't know how well a society of our size would function without a taxing system). I think it'd be right to feel stolen from, if you don't believe in having to pay taxes and you're forced (by law) to pay them anyway. But, I find it very hypocritical to get mad when the money is used for one cause instead of another and declare it "theft" only when I disapprove of the cause. I mean, if someone stole a $100 bucks from me, and used the money to either feed the poor or to get himself a gun, maybe one thing would be better than the other, but HEY, he stole my money, and it doesn't matter what he does with it, IT'S WRONG! It shouldn't have been his choice to spent the money is a good or bad way, it should have been my choice.

But, if I more or less agree to having to pay taxes, I find it hypocritical to complain and declare "theft" when the money is used for one program over another. That doesn't mean that you need to accept how the government spends tax money. Oh no! I think people should be involved and find out how the money is spend, and speak up when they want it used differently. I think that's fine, and that's how it should be. But, to say they are stealing my money, only when I disagree with how they spend it, is just silly to me.

For example, I really don't like how much tax money is spent on military. I think it's way too much and if only spent half as much on the military, they could probably do a lot in other areas I deem more important (like education or even fixing the welfare system). However, while I strongly opposed how much money is spend on the military, I have not once claimed that they are stealing my money because they are taxing me, and then using the money in ways I don't like. That's because, I'm not completely opposed to taxation (mainly because I don't have a better alternative for making things happen in a large society). Also, in the end, I think why complain so much about the tax money I have to pay. Sure, they are huge amounts at times, and it sort of hurts to give away something that I earned, but was it really mine to begin with? Where would I be without the help of God anyway? I probably wouldn't possess as much as penny. So, when Christ said to give to God what is God's and to give to Cesar what is Cesars, maybe he suggested to just not be so worried about what we end up giving, and to just count our blessings. Maybe not...So, please, if you have issues with taxation, speak up and do something. If you do not like how tax money is spent, please speak up, do something and get involved. BUT PLEASE!!! don't whine about being stolen from when you don't agree with how money is being spent, because you were stolen from the second you ended up having to pay taxes (be it for a conservative or liberal government).

P.S. I should also mention that I think I'm a little tired of Obama getting so much crap already for the stimulus plan from some people who never said a peep about Bush spending (by now probably) trillion for a war that by his own admission had nothing to do with terrorism. While I'm not sure how I feel about the whole bail-out etc, I don't know that it's better to spend trillions of Iraqi Freedom than on stabilizing the global economy. I also find it extremely difficult to figure out what the right thing to do with this economic crisis. It's easy to be against something, but I doubt that most of us truly understand the scope of the problem, and the possible repercussions if we let the market fix itself (which I think is possible, but it may come at a price that may far outweigh the billions we are facing now). Honestly, I have given Bush more time and more credit than I feel Obama is getting now. He's hardly done worse than the last president we had, and it bugs me a little that some are sooooo riled up all of sudden, where a few months ago, I didn't hear a word. Well, maybe it's just the straw that broke the camel's back, so I'll try and not judge, but I'll admit it's bothering me a little.

9 comments:

Marie M. said...

I like your writing...and your ideas.

Isa said...

Oh Fran, I agree. People, if the government steals your money, then my advice is: move out! There's plenty of other countries on this planet.

I've heard so many "conservatives" go on about their money being stolen... and in some ways I understand how they feel. It's one thing to root for subsidized education when you are a student, but it's quite another when you are the one whose tax rate is at 50%. So I understand, I really do. I'm having my issues living in socialist Finland because everybody gets rewarded here, students, alcoholics, the poor, and middle-income families pay for all of that.

BUT that doesn't mean the governmetn is stealing from me. It means the government distributes money in a way that I highly disagree with. And if I start getting too annoyed then I suppose I have to find me another country to live in.

As to the bail-out plan, however, allow me a few words. In general I suppose I agree.. it's better to "waste" money on stabilizing the economy than on warring with the root of all evil in the Middle East.

BUT the problem is that Obama isn't stabilizing the economy, he is paying off rich interest groups, like the car makes, whose alliance he needs. Both Bush and Obama know how to play the political game. Bush played to the conservatives by inventing a war, Obama is playing to center liberals by feeding them cash.

So the problem, I would say, isn't taxes. The problem is petty corruption, caused by all-too-powerful interest groups. In other words: The problem is the two-partisan system, that's my opinion.

So what should people do? Stop complaining about the taxes and start holding their leaders responsible, make government transparent, etc.

Oh yay, this was fun! Reminds me of those Damron classes back at BYU. :)

Franziska Patterson said...

Well, I totally agree with you Isa. I think there is much to disagree with in regards to how tax money is spend, and also how much people are taxed.

And I think there are like-wise problems with the bail-out. I think if Obama can live to one campaign promise, and get it through, he would have achieved one significant and important change: getting rid of or at least greatly restricting lobbying. But, I too think there are problems already on how this bail-out is being run and who is getting money, and so I agree with you that we have a big problem with corrupt politicians.

And, again, I wouldn't mind if people were upset about that, but it feels to me that people are mad because billions are spent on a bail-out (which is also a legitimate concern), but then it seems those same people were not stinking mad over billions being spent on a war with no end in sight...I don't enjoy that double standard (or any double standard for that matter - except for my own of course,hahaha...)

It's all tricky. I'm all for promoting change, getting involved, doing things. But I'd like complaints to be well-founded and fair.

Those Damron classes were fun, weren't they.

KroekieMonsters said...

You never heard anyone complain about Bush?!? Or you just didn't hear people who are now complaining about Obama complain about Bush?
Anyway I should refer my Dad to your blog, since he's the last person besides you I've heard ask why it's theft if you're neighbor takes your money, but not if the majority of your neighbors vote that you money should be taken away from you and given to him? Dad's always been a generous guy, I guess he just prefers to give generously by choice, not because somebody says he has to. Although he has also lamented that providing freely for everyone's needs does get more difficult the larger the community.

KroekieMonsters said...

"So what should people do? Stop complaining about the taxes and start holding their leaders responsible, make government transparent, etc."
I'd like to second this comment by Isa. It's all to common for Americans to forget that "We the people" elect our government and should keep an eye on them and what they are doing - if we don't like it we have the chance to fire them at least as frequently as we have elections, and before it gets to that point there are other channels for airing our grievances as well.

Franziska Patterson said...

Aliza, I wish I would have gotten to know your parents more :). That's actually my point that if taxation is "theft" it's theft at any time (no matter the taxed amount, no matter by who, no matter what for...).

I was also trying to say that I haven't heard people complain about Bush with things they now complain about Obama, that Bush actually did as well...(did this sentence just make sense?). Basically, I'm trying to say I hear conservatives complain over issues that have been issues with conservative leaders as well, but they didn't complain then.

Henry said...

Sad to say, I haven't gotten into politics much until now. (I'm entering adulthood at age 30!) Anyway, I remember loads of people complain about Bush. But, did he publicize how much he was spending on the war or was that always something hard to figure out? Do we know how much is currently going to Afghanistan and Iraq? I do feel like Obama is trying to be more transparent which opens him up to more attacks. But I'm sure he's playing the game too. It seems like every politician does? Could it be that Obama has an alterior motive for blocking out lobbyists? What do you guys think?

Henry

Angie said...

I don't know if you'll read this since I'm commenting a week later...

Henry, yes, the money Bush spent on the war was publicized. I heard about it over the radio on NPR. But, I'm also like you. I haven't gotten into politics much until now. The more I'm learning, the more I am disliking what the Bush administration did. Also, I've said before, the more I learn, the more I feel like I don't know at all.

One thing I do like...I like it when we vote for taxes on a local level. I know where the money will be taxed from and I know where it will be going. If we were a true republic, then the federal government should do the same thing...and we would be at the polls every week deciding how the taxes should be paid. Talk about potential voter apathy. I wish we had more control over the federal taxes. I also think that people who especially make over $250,000 feel robbed, since, as I understand it, they will only be taking home 40% of their gross income. Talk about a Robin Hood movement...
I think that's where people would prefer to give to the charities that they want to give to, and not have the government mandate where their money goes (at least when it comes to welfare issues...we can't really have a private military...that has to be national...but we can help each other on a private, non-profit way).
It's hard to say what we would do when all of our income is used on basic necessities. But if we had a lot of disposable income, maybe we would think a little differently...and we definitely wouldn't want the government taking that disposable income to use as they please.

Franziska Patterson said...

The earners over $250,000 are taking home 61% (their tax bracket is going up from 33 percent to 39 percent), which is a lot I think.

I don't see why the military HAS to be on a national level. There is already military on state level (national guard, despite it's name is usually run state by state). I don't see that welfare is better run on a private basis than the military. Both can be done private or federally - probably equally well.